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Name: the SortaRican
Subject: On the 7
-- Jun 21, 2000 at 11:52PM
In the ever-continuing saga of our favorite whipping-boy, John Rocker announced that he will not only pitch in the next Braves/Mets game, but he will also ride the #7 subway train to Shea stadium on game day.
Frankly, Rocker's comments have been blown entirely out of proportion and I'm not even angry at his comments. Though I will be pissed off if that son of a bitch manages to snag a seat on the train.
Name: The Editors Respond
Subject: Re: Hunka Hunka Berlin Love
-- Jun 21, 2000 at 8:33PM
Ha! Nice. See, we told you it'd be fun to comment on that one.
Name: the SortaRican
Subject: Hunka Hunka Berlin Love
-- Jun 21, 2000 at 8:04PM
While a Russia-Germany alliance doesn't seem to alarm the general American populace, I believe it was announced last week that France has already surrendered to both countries.
Name: the SortaRican
Subject: Re: The Editors Respond
-- Jun 21, 2000 at 7:55PM
I couldn't agree with you more. It's the police's perception of minority groups that it the problem, and I think you summed it up very well . As a wise man once said, 'I'll second that emotion'.
Name: The Editors Respond
Subject: Re: i've been bamboozled
-- Jun 21, 2000 at 2:48PM
PS: How come no one is commenting on our "Hunka Hunka Berlin Love" blurb??? :)
Name: The Editors Respond
Subject: Re: i've been bamboozled
-- Jun 21, 2000 at 2:46PM
Our two cents: the problem might not be that aggressive police tactics would be roundly criticized by the offended minority community, but it's almost certainly that the cops *believe* that aggressive police tactics would be roundly criticized by the offended minority community.
Are they right? I bet we find out next Puerto Rican Day Parade.
Name: the SortaRican
Subject: i've been bamboozled
-- Jun 21, 2000 at 2:23PM
Miriam,
I didn't misunderstand your post- in no way did you say that everyone at the parade acted like cavemen, nor is that what I was responding to.
My only point was that not every Rican would have accused the police of excessive force (certainly not me) in light of the circumstances. The weekend before the Puerto Rican Day parade, there were several police shootings in NYC. None of those elicited outrage from the minority communities because, even though the victims were minorities, the circumstances were very different from a lot of the other incidences. These shootings took place during during the course of the cops' duties and while the shootings are not to be commended, they were understandable.
Again, there needs to be assessment on a case by case basis. Even our old pal Al Sharpton doesn't leap up at EVERY police action, only those he deems are racially motivated or at least ethnically insensitive. To say we'd jump at the cops no matter what they do is erroneous.
Name: Miriam Gotlib aka MGotlib
Subject: Re: we've been bamboozled!
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 11:27PM
Well, if you read my response carefully, you will see that I did say that not all people at the parade behaved like a bunch of cavemen (please read it over before becoming so defensive). In fact, I believe most people there, male or female, were having pure clean wholesome fun.
But lets be honest for a second, and this is in no way a reflection on the Puerto Rican community, but rather a reflection on all of us, as a community in general. Have you seen those videos on TV? Not only the cops, but EVERYONE walked idly by and ignored the assaults. Why didnt anyone come to their rescue? Why did the people taking the videos just kept taping instead of calling for help? Does anyone have cellphones?
As for the cops, I dont condone their behavior. They should have done their job. But honestly, had they screwed up, and g-d forbid shot some 16yo kid, I would be the first one to accuse them of excessive force.
Name: the SortaRican
Subject: we've been bamboozled!
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 5:23PM
To mgotlib,
I really have to disagree with you on your take on how Puerto Ricans would have responded to police intervention at the Central Park mob scene.
Many Rican community leaders have come forward to condemn the actions of the few men involved. There is in no way any approval of their actions.
That said, there is no way to accurately judge what the response would have been to aggressive police involvement because there was none. To say that we would have accused the cops of discrimination or going in to bust heads is not only just conjecture, but insulting.
To say that we, as a community, would have been that unreasonable as to side with a bunch of would-be rapists over the police in this case is to imply that our group consciousness would turn a blind eye to women being molested in the street.
From the beginning, all minority groups (and I hate that word, by the way) have ever wanted was equal treatment under the law. That police allegedly have different policies with regards to the Puerto Rican Day Parade versus other parades shows that the attitudes are not equal.
Puerto Ricans are still seen as the 'other' and I think that your post, whether you meant it to or not, speaks to how separate we are in this City.
Name: mgotlib
Subject: Re: Puerto Rican Day Parade
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 2:36PM
Dear JAC, although you and I generally seem to be on the same note, I am afraid this time I will have to disagree. Parades can be a valuable, bonding and empowering experience for a community, especially when its members are often discriminated against and disenfranchised. And since you are a staunch supporter of the 1st Amendment, let me remind you, that parades are part of our 1st Amendment right of free association.
So the problem was not the parade itself or the fact that it was a Puerto-Rican parade. Not every member of that community behaved like a horny neanderthal.
The problem however, and this is where I have to agree, was the fucking political correctness. You see, for once, the cops were in a no win situation. Had they taken strong measures to stop the mob of hooligans, (imagine, if there was a shooting?), they would have been accused of using excessive force at a "peaceful" parade against unarmed teenagers. So, they looked the other way -- and got burned anyway.
The other problem is, of course, that in the year 2000, law enforcement's view on unwanted sexual advances toward women remains same as it did 100 years ago. When interviewed on the subject of cops' slow response to the nearby attacks against women, one P.O. answered "the females at the parade were inadequately dressed". Read, "they asked for it". And while I admit that wearing a halter-top to a Puerto-Rican day parade is not the best thing a girl can do for her physical safety, I also know that the dress she wears is part of HER 1st Amendment right to express herself, and does not give a man, or a mob of 15-20 men, the right to feel her up.
Name: Joe Average Citizen
Subject: Puerto Rican Day Parade
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 1:20PM
An interesting topic came up on NPR the other day. In case no one else noticed the A/P Newswire in its report of the "after-parade" unpleasantness neglected to note that it was after the PUERTO RICAN DAY PARADE. In fact, not until the 8th paragraph of it's story did it even mention that the unfortunate events of Central Park took place after A PARADE.
It's a shame that the A/P is falling victim of Political Correctness... wimpering bunch of left wing babies.
Anyway... I'm glad that 17 of the fuckers caught on video have been arrested.
I'm disappointed in the NYPD's poor response to an obviously critical situation.
And I wonder why all the right wingers out there are saying things like, "this unruly parade shouldn't be allowed"... when every March "they" enjoy the St. Patricks Day parade where lots of similar bad shit happens... it just doesn't get reported because it's on 2nd Avenue and not in Central Park.
The world is full of assholes... Left, Right and Center... and I'm sure I fall in there somewhere...
I think the best way to eliminate problems like this is to eliminate parades... fuck 'em... who cares anyway?
Have a nice day.
JAC
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