|
 |
|
|
Name: RD
Subject: american skin
-- Jun 5, 2006 at 9:29AM
I think you are missing the point of the song. I only recently heard it--although I grew up in Manhattan I'm no Springsteen fan and wasn't reading the Times when the uproar happened--but I don't think that Springsteen is committing himself to a "position" either for or against the police. "41 shots" bemoans the state of race relations in America today (Cross that bloody river to the other side is an obvious reference to the cultural rifts which can prove deadly) and knee jerk reactions against the song are misplaced. I don't know your personal background but I've been involved in several street fights which should not have happened, but occurred due to racial tensions and inequities. I've had my ass kicked by black kids and was saved in one instance by a cop, but I'm not going to pretend there aren't two sides to the issue. Should the four officers in the Diallo trial have been convicted? In my opinion, definitely not: they were thrown into a situation where they had good cause to fear and lacked the training and experience which could have saved Diallo's life. However, I'd call any man who doesn't believe change is needed either naive or apathetic.
Just my two cents.
Name: Bill
Subject: Hi
keep up the good work
Regards
-- Mar 31, 2006 at 2:41PM
Hi
keep up the good work
Regards
Name: Helga
Subject: Hi
keep up the good work
Regards
-- Mar 30, 2006 at 11:27AM
Hi
keep up the good work
Regards
Name: chris
Subject: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Feb 26, 2003 at 10:58AM
I apologize because I did not mean for it to be construed as an actual threat. And yes, I would stick up for a murdered cop. Despite what my first post seems to imply, I am against violence, and I am very strongly against the likes of cop killers such as Mumia Abu Jamal.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: jud
-- Feb 26, 2003 at 7:06AM
Word of warning, Chris. If you threaten people physically, verbally or in print, you're breaking the law. In print, there is direct physical evidence. Learn this -- it may save you from lawsuits or short stints in prison in the future.
Besides which, if you had spoken these words to me in person, I would have taken you at your word, and both our lives would be much more unpleasant now. Say what you mean, and be willing to back up those words -- if you threaten to shoot somebody, then be willing to do so.
And if you threaten to shoot somebody, ask yourself how you're any better or worse than those cops. Obviously, the only people who can put themselves in the shoes of "a dead, innocent man" are other dead innocent men. You can't do it any better or worse than I or anyone else could.
Scroll down the responses here to the part where I question why this case was made into such a cause, when exponentially more citizens were shot and killed by the NYC police under Mayor Dinkins administration. I don't recall you or anyone else mourning the deaths of those people -- were you? If not, then why not? And if your whole issue is puting yourself into the shoes of "dead, innocent men," would you ever see yourself making a stand for a cop murdered on the job, which tends to happen every so often in major news stories in NYC, the worst being a situation in Queens back in the late 80s where a cop was purposely assisinated by a drug kingpin while sitting in his car.
Chris, the only fairly obvious thing about your post was that you threatened my life, and I'd strongly recommend you not do that again, or perhaps examine why you're making statements like that, then passing any sort of judgment on me. Because all I've done here is taken my right to free speech and expressed it, which should pose no physical threat to you, at least not of the sort that would cause you to respond in the way you did. Please consider that -- because as we learned in the whole Diallo situations, there are repercussions to your actions, and people should be held accountable for their actions. Be accountable, Chris, and for christ's sake, don't ever physically threaten me or anyone else again, whether or not you mean it. I'm not sure you recognize the severe trouble this can get you into.
Name: Chris
Subject: jud
-- Feb 26, 2003 at 3:29AM
No, I think it is fairly obvious I was simply pointing out that you can't justify what the cops did until you put yourself in the shoes of a dead, innocent man.
In restrospect I chose a shitty way to convey my desire for peace, and I am embarassed that I lost my cool.
Good day.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: you
-- Feb 14, 2003 at 10:12AM
You just made a terroristic threat which is punishable by jail time, Chris. This is evidence should we choose to contact the authorities. Even if you're using a fake name, I'm sure it won't be hard to trace your email. Care to pursue this any further?
Name: Chris Fisk
Subject: you
-- Feb 14, 2003 at 10:02AM
Are a fuckin douche. Give it up, son. I'll come to your neighborhood and take 41 shots at your dumb ass and see how you like it. Good day, motherfucker.
Name: Carol
Subject: 41 Shots
-- Jan 8, 2003 at 5:51AM
Does anyone know how long it took for him to write the song?? I have heard that it took 3 or 4 days, is that correkt?
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: pierre
-- Nov 19, 2002 at 7:57PM
Hooray!
Name: tony
Subject: pierre
-- Nov 19, 2002 at 6:08PM
i live on teeside what is the main town
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: wanker
-- Nov 18, 2002 at 7:52PM
"Daft cunt"? Oh, my -- Oscar Wilde is rolling over in his grave ... and waiting for you to give it to him, Tony.
If you knew anything about America, you'd have never started in with the "cowboy" shit, i.e., a stereotypical insult of the type clowns like you must be gobbling up all day every day with your country's infamous yellow journalistic habits. Come now, Tony, aren't the English supposed to be impeccably mannered and above this sort of fray? Oh, dear boy, you're acting like an American.
Stay on your rainy island, mate. A place like America and a city like New York are beyond your ken. All you have to deal with it is insults -- you think you'll do well here, but take my word for it, shit-talking English wankers don't cut it here.
Now, why don't you run off and insult someone from Bulgaria? Or Luxembourg? Some place more your size and speed.
P.S. What's the capital of South Dakota?
Name: tony
Subject: wanker
-- Nov 18, 2002 at 6:52PM
unlike you mate i know quite a lot about the usa and if i ever come into some money would love to visit your great country. i just hope i dont meet to many daft cunts like you.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Nov 18, 2002 at 4:32PM
I got a life, wanker ... in America. A place you understand nothing about. Do me a favor, Tony -- you stick to countries you know, and I'll do the same. Because you obviously know nothing about America, and hearing you say anything about is like hearing a eunuch talking about sex. You don't know what you're talking about, so why not go back to the pub, have another pint and think of something cute and meaningless to say about Tony Blair, eh, mate?
Name: tony
Subject: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Nov 18, 2002 at 4:23PM
William S. Repsher we have a prince called william he is a dipshit get a life you knob
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Nov 17, 2002 at 8:29PM
Why not let people born in the usa explain "born in the usa", dipshit, since you're obviously not? I'll take America with all its problems over your rotten-ass European stinkburg any day.
Name: tony
Subject: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Nov 17, 2002 at 4:50PM
i have had to explain born in the usa over the years to a lot of people i have now give up. so i wont bother with 41 shots just listen to the song. p.s if you cazy people did not have guns terrible things like this mans death might not happen your still a load of cowboys grow up
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: ****
-- Apr 8, 2002 at 4:01PM
I don't have to bet you're white -- I know you're white. And have never spent 10 minutes, much less 10 years, in a place like Diallo's neighborhood. Try it sometime, for a kick -- we'll talk then.
Name: summer
Subject: ****
-- Apr 8, 2002 at 3:54PM
people are so judgemental, i bet all that responded are white. You can't see other people's points unless you are put in that situation, try to think about the situation, not the color of the victim's skin.
i liked the song, VERY MUCH, and so did ALL the people around my side of town(IN JERSEY)!!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: American Skin
-- Oct 26, 2001 at 9:28AM
You have one good question: does an artist have to live the subject of the art?
If it's fiction, no. If it's supposedly reality-based, I'd say yes. Is this song supposedly reality-based? Or is it fiction? That's for you to decide, I guess, but I know it doesn't ring true to me.
And, hate to point this out to you, but Steinbeck lived through the socio-economic circumstances he depicted in Grapes of Wrath. He wasn't in a wealthy suburb. As for Saving Private Ryan and Dances with Wolves, I consider both popcorn entertainment that works real well on a movie screen, but doesn't have much to do with reality. Unless you want to point out that Kevin Costner really digs indians, man.
It was my mistake to say Diallo was shot 41 times -- the actual number was far lower than that -- 41 shots were fired. As for being "unarmed," this sad fact was not evident to the cops until immediately after their tragic error in judgment. And I would love to see how you would react in a similar situation, with three other police offers, approaching a suspect, and the suspect, instead of responding to verbal commands, but instead dodges into a doorway, jams his hand into a pocket and then turns, pulling his hand from his pocket. I'd be willing to bet nine times out of ten, that would be a gun or knife coming out -- I would have to talk to cops placed in this real-life situation to verify this. But I'm afraid you're not grasping these issues, or ignoring them because they don't serve your purpose. Not to mention that this entire incident was over in less than five seconds. Read below for my take on cops using automatic weapons -- and I suggest you get yourself to a pistol range and fire one to see exactly what I mean and how this relates to four panicked men (who, admittedly, should not have been panicked and two of whom should have been held accountable and charged with some type of crime for their actions).
There are dozens of Springsteen songs I like. My favorite period of his is Born in the USA, where he got down to writing simple basic songs about Americans in a way that I still find to be great songwriting. A lot of the songs that didn't make the album -- County Fair, Sugarland, Pink Cadillac -- are as great as anything on the album. If he'd have taken off the awful "Cover Me" and inserted a handful of these "leftovers" ; onto the album, it would have been even better. The kicker for me was the original take on "My Hometown" -- the rockabilly version of it, which is astounding. When he camped it up and made it a sappy-sounding ballad for the album, he took a lot away from the song's power. But then again, that's pretty much my whole take on 41 shots.
The Ghost of Tom Joad is a fucking terrible album -- it's boring and bad, and recognizing that does not make my cynical, just honest, which is a strange currency among Springsteen fanatics.
Any other questions?
Name: John Hocking
Subject: American Skin
-- Oct 26, 2001 at 9:10AM
You're tough to please and understand. OK, you don't like the song - fine, but that's a comment about you, not the song. I glean that object to a song about racial profiling written by someone white and rich? Does an artist have to live the subject of the art. If so, we wouldn't have novels like the Grapes of Wrath movies like Saving Private Ryan or Dances With Wolves. The Diallo family attended Springsteen's first MSG show and liked the song. The song asks questions - its doesn't have answers.
And geez - you're probably the only person on earth to think that an unarmed guy shot 41 times is just fine and dandy.
I'd be interested to know what Springsteen songs you do like? The Ghost of Tom Joad is full of songs a lot of people like. You lose credible as a critic with what appears to be just broad-stroke rambling cynicism.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: What about me?
-- Jul 18, 2001 at 9:13PM
Sarah, you want diversity, you know where to go -- towns like Asbury Park are just a few miles away, and I'm sure you could lease a mansion for the price of the small house you can no longer afford in Rumson.
Nice place to live? From what I've heard, I agree -- but there are plenty of nice places to live in America, and not all of them requiring its inhabitants to clear six figures a year to live there. Ask yourself why Rumson is nice and how race places into that -- if you can answer those questions honestly, then I'll have more respect for you. But no one wants to answer those questions, least of all the people living there.
I cut Bruce as much slack as he deserves ... and gave it to him hard in areas I found lacking. Don't worry -- I'm in a vast minority here, at least in terms of the media, the music media in particular.
What's really going on in America? I'd like to know myself. And sure as hell am not going to find out about it or be directed anywhere near it by a pop star and his song.
Name: Sarah Roberts
Subject: What about me?
-- Jul 18, 2001 at 1:46PM
OK, I get your point but i just so happen to live in Rumson and I think your wrong. I know what you'r thinking... oh, boy heres anouther one of thoes "Rumson bitches" but I mean really, we're not all like that I mean I live on Church street you know the one with all the small houses on it it. I mean me and my family have to move to Fair Haven (the next town over) because we can't affourd this house anymore (were leasing) but thats because Rumson is such a nice place to live. The only thing is we have no diversity so i mean like commeon cut him some slack, and its not like he even belives that stuff hes just trying to let people be more aware of whats really going on in America.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: American skin
-- Apr 16, 2001 at 8:34PM
OOPS -- Here's Part II that somehow got cut off:
And these are realities involving situations like this (again, look no further than Cincinnati) that do occur in America and will go on occuring. When Springsteen does a song like "41 Shots," frankly, I'm insulted. He's spouting a bunch of easy-to-understand, broad statements that, yes, we all agree, what wonderful things to say about humanity in general, we must stop this problem, we must overcome this thing.
But it's a lot easier to sing the song than to live the life, to actually leave behind that white power base and live among black people, as an equal or less. And when you do, I can tell you, things change, for better and worse. I just can't go back to that "Springsteen&qu ot; way of thinking -- it's too damn easy, too damn lazy. It's not action -- I'd argue that it doesn't even inspire action. You know what would change my mind? Springsteen moves back to Asbury Park -- if you haven't been there lately, it's pretty much a warzone in some places and run-down all over. If he did that -- if he were willing to have the courage of his convinctions, I would do everything possible to make "41 Shots" the number one song in America -- which it could probably be made anyway with a little help from his svengali Jon Landau. But, honestly, Rob, and no offense, the song just feels empty to me. It's not action -- it's a nice thought, in a situation that provided me with many troubling, complex thoughts that are not so easily defined. But, keep the cards and letters coming -- as you can see, it's a topic I'm not afraid to discuss with anyone.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: American skin
-- Apr 16, 2001 at 8:29PM
Is there something in the water? Two sane people in a row responding to this article?
Well put, Rob, but I still aint budging on this one. Attacking a song for what it is NOT is not silly when the song uses a battle cry for the protests arising from the Diallo shootings (41 shots) then makes direct reference to the cops in the vestibule. I guess what you could point out here is that Springsteen is confused -- why not have some balls, Bruce, and write about this specific situation alone, instead of employing the hoary "Lena and her son" story line that doesn't work for me either.
If the song is not about the Diallo shooting, then he should have not have titled it as such nor employed imagery directly from that situation. That situation itself is a pack of thorns in regards to racial ramifications arising from what happened -- a complex situation that Springsteen gets nowhere near, or overly simplifies with this "we all have American skin" silliness. Tell that to a black man who's just lost a son, or been robbed, because he can't afford to live anywhere else but a run-down inner-city neighborhood. I think he might disagree with you.
And I would, too. I think a lot of your analyses, while sound, are from the viewpoint of someone who's always operated from the comfort of a white power base, which is to say you find it easy to make these assumptions (about all of us being the same, sharing the guilt, sharing the responsibility, etc.) It's just a white way of thinking, no offense. You take yourself out of that white power base, and the world looks a lot less reasonable. I have spent my entire life around working-class people of all colors, the first 20 or so around all white, and the last 15 around black, hispanic, asian, indian, etc. in New York. The only thing I see uniting these people is a general anger towards the world that somehow and very often gets twisted into being misdirected anger at each other based on race or ethnicity. I'd say that anger is also a good thing, in that allows people to strip down issues to their bare essentials, which usually come down to pure power.
And the truth is the average working-class man, be he black or white, is powerless in this capitalstic society, and fucking angry about it. That anger is a very easy thing to tap into, whether we're talking White Supremacists, or, if you've lived in New York, the "empty sloganeering" I was referring to via Al Sharpton and his minions. When Springsteen called this song "41 Shots," he was using a slogan that had been floating around for months in New York regarding the case. (As I point out in the article, a bad choice, as "One Shot" would have provided the same sense of outrage.)
This song totally negates that anger, ignores it all together, and is too weak to even address it in terms of race, and I will drive this home forever, the Diallo shooting came down to race above and beyond any police issue. Your statement that we are all "very distant from it" is way off -- some of us are far more distant than others. Springsteen and his children are worlds away from this. You as a white person perhaps not living in a rough area are very distant from it. Even when I lived in the Bronx, as a white man, I was distant from it. Any black man or child, whatever town he lives in, is very near it. If he lives in any run-down inner-city environment, it follows him around like a shadow.
And Springsteen never gets anywhere near that concept. Divisive? Of course it's divisive, but it's one of those hard, thorny truths that are at the heart of the Diallo shooting -- so it's my recommendation that if Springsteen wanted to make a grand statement about race and social responisbility, he should have picked one where things were a lot more clear and easy to discern.
And we are all not as distant from the repercussions of the shootings. Again, if you can isolate yourself in a wealthy suburb like Rumson, chances are pretty rare some enraged mobbed of black kids are not going to bash your head in with a brick should the right buttons get pushed and riots break out (as they have recently in Cincinnati). When I lived in the Bronx, I can assure you, unless I hid myself well and the same sort of violence broke out, I may not be here right now typing this. In Queens? The situation wouldn't be as drastic, but it wouldn't be good either. There was a small riot after the Patrick Dorismond shooting a few weeks after the Diaollo shooting, and dire predictions from many ediotiralists that NYC would go up in flames that summer. Luckily, nothing else happened, and we were spared. (Do you know who Patrick Dorismond is? I hope so -- otherwise I'll be extremely disappointed and will accuse you of not keeping track of an important issue, at least in regards to living in New York.)
And these are realities involving situations like this (again, look no further than Cincinnati) that do occur in America and will go on occuring. W
Name: Rob Taylor
Subject: American skin
-- Apr 16, 2001 at 6:29PM
I'm not sure what the critique is here. Are we attacking the SONG for being too superficial a take on a complex issue, or are we attacking Springsteen for being rich? Either way, I think you're missing the point.
Let me say preliminarily that Springsteen is not a novelist. Whatever point he wants to make has to rhyme and be finished in less than 3 minutes 30 seconds. This tends to limit the level of complexity with which he can address any topic.
Moreover, attacking a song for what it is NOT is pretty silly. You may want to hear a song that tackles the complex issues of race, crime, and urban policing, but this is not that song. You may as well attack "Thunder Road" for not addressing race, crime, and urban policing.
The song is superficially about the Diallou tragedy, but that's just the hook -- the common frame of reference that draws us in. All of us (OK, most of us, some of us apparently live in caves) know about the Diallou shooting. So we understand the particular event to which Springsteen alludes... even though, as Maggie states, we don't have to know it to get the gist.
Before getting into textual analysis, I think we need to be clear on something. A great deal is made of the fact that Springsteen is now rich and famous, as if that somehow disqualifies him from commenting on anything other than being rich and famous. But Springsteen wasn't BORN in Rumson and spent the first twenty-some years of his life as one of the poor & powerless in society. The kind of person who did get a hard time from the cops, despite the color of his skin.
Now, to focus on what the song actually IS about instead of what it's NOT about: If we are going to engage in textual analysis I think we should look at a few things which seem to indicate that Springsteen's message was not so much "the cops are a bunch of killers" as "we are all a part of this -- don't think you can hide."
Consider from "41 Shots" the following: (a) "You're kneeling over a body in the vestibule/Praying for his life; (b) "Is it in your heart? Is it in your mind?" (omitted from the lyrics printed in the initial article; the repeated chorus is not the same each time); and (c) "41 shots and we'll take that ride/Across this bloody river to the other side/41 shots my boots caked in mud/We're baptized in these waters and in each other's blood"
Don't these seem to be a recognition of Springsteen's INDIVIDUAL -- and our COLLECTIVE -- responsibility for what happened? In these lyrics, first, WE are the police -- "you're" kneeling over the body, not "him" or "they" but "you." Then, we are called upon to confront our own feelings about race and crime -- "is it in your heart?" Before worrying about the mote in your neighbor's eye, remove the plank from your own. Lastly, the final verse is a clear indication that Springsteen acknowledges his share of responsibility for all this. His boots are caked in the mud of that bloody river -- perhaps it is the price of his privileged existence, perhaps it is simply his support of the socioeconomic status quo (I mean, let's face it, Bruce is hardly a revolutionary), but whichever way you slice it, Springsteen is NOT making this an us-and-them issue. In the song we are baptized in each other's blood.
Far from being "empty sloganeering," I think this song takes a subtle, profound approach to a complex topic -- our (collective and individual) role in the tragedy itself. We all share the same American skin. We are the cop kneeling in the vestibule. We are the victim shot for our skin color (as you point out, if Diallou was white none of this would have happened). And we are all "caked in the mud" of the bloody river. We are reminded of our collective responsibility. When you are driving back out to your safe whitebread suburb, fans, keep in mind that you support and benefit from the system that made this tragedy not just possible, but mostly unavoidable. And before you go branding the cops as racists, "is it in your heart? Is it in your mind?"
A cheap and easy way out would be to attack the cops as racist, and to make the audience feel good and superior about how enlightened they are and how far removed this all is from them. This is NOT a song to send white suburbanites home happy and contented. It's meant to make them think about their own roles in all this. Springsteen can't help the fact that some of them will misinterpret the song to mean something else (a la Ronald Reagen trying to appropriate "Born In The USA).
The song doesn't offer us a solution, it's true. But there is no easy solution, and it would be insulting if he even attempted to tell us he had the perfect pop-song answer to this deep and abiding social problem (all I can think of is Boy George admonishing us that "war, war is stupid, and people are stupid, and no more war.") But it does attempt to make us address the tragedy in a much more personal way by reminding us that we are not distant from it, no
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: The Song
-- Apr 16, 2001 at 7:24AM
Fair enough, Maggie. I appreciate a rational, reasoned response. If you've noticed, most people haven't been that way -- and they've been exact replicas of the kind of histrionics that have accompanied this issue in New York. People going so far as to accuse me of "siding with the cops" when I did no such thing -- I simply pointed out that there are many sides to this story, the key one being media manipulation, that doesn't make for heroic song fodder, i.e., I've never heard a song that takes this aspect of the situation into account.
As for the song, it doesn't say anything. This issue is clearly about race -- Springsteen plays it easy by insinuating that we all have "American Skin" -- but that's bullshit, as I pointed out in the article, as the chances of me as a white man getting shot by a cop are extremely slim. It's too easy, too convenient, and I hate to say it as Springsteen has written some incredible songs, too lazy. This song does nothing -- and it misses dozens of hard, ugly truths surrounding this issue. It's like Springsteen's a politican running for office, and willing to reduce a complex issue to a feel-good human rights ballad. The issue deserves more respect than that.
Various Springsteen fans, at least a few honest ones, have been telling me how put off they've been by his performance of the song in his HBO special, how hammy it is, with Springsteen making a point to have the camera focus on his hand grasping sax player's Clarence Clemmons huge black one and holding that shot for a long time. I don't know ... I think it would be more honest to have Bruce's hand clutching a $100 bill. The one black man in the building, save for the occasional security person or backstage help, is being manipulated, so Springsteen can have a touchy-feely moment of racial harmony for his all-white fans, who will then go back to homes in predominately white, middle to upper-middle-class neighborhoods and never once have to deal with the kind of real-life complexities presented by this situation, if not the song. I find this sort of manipulation deeply cynical, even if I'm running on the assumption that Springsteen's heart is in the right place, and I am.
And that's my problem with this song, boiled down to a few points. But once again, if more people were as rational as you are, there'd be no need for this article.
Name: Maggie
Subject: The Song
-- Apr 15, 2001 at 10:46PM
I seem to have spent the last little while reading through the posts here. To be honest, I too, happened upon this site looking for the lyrics to American Skin. It's been an interesting visit.
I really haven't listened to a lot of Springsteen until a few months ago when a friend got me hooked. I only heard American Skin at the release of the new album, and didn't even know what the story was behind it. My friend had me listen to the song, and then told me about it afterwards. I'm from a small town, no where near New York City, and I hadn't heard about what had happened.
I fell in love with the song as soon as I heard it. I loved it because it made me think. I didn't automatically think "race" (there are no references to race in the song) or "Bronx" or even "NYC" (no references to the city).
Believe it or not, I thought "violence" . If you take a look at the lyrics from the eyes of someone who didn't know the story behind the song, you'll see how I could think that way. It could be any city in the US. American skin is just that....any American.
I've no idea why Springsteen wrote the song, or what he was trying to convey. What I do see by the posts here, is that it's gotten us all talking about it. The posts haven't all been about Diallo either. The underlying conversation has been the violence. No, we don't all live in the Bronx. I couldn't even fathom what it would be like to live in the Bronx. I couldn't begin to understand what was going through the cops minds, and I won't attempt to.
What I do know is that it's made me think. Is that going to change the world...no. But if more of us stop and think, before we speak or act, that just might help.
What it boils down to, is that it really doesn't matter whether we love the song, hate the song, or have no opinion one way or the other...long after the last note has played, we're still talking about it.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Dear William
-- Mar 8, 2001 at 10:43AM
Leisuresuit.net readers: for a real kick at home, try this. Go to the Yahoo search engine. Type in the words "nazi" and "Sweden." Enjoy!
Name: Jonas
Subject: Dear William
-- Mar 8, 2001 at 10:34AM
It's funny to see sucha an ignorant person as you. Lederhosen is applicable to Germans, but I guess for an ignorant person like yorself Europe is all the same all over..... I don't know if it's posible to smoke reindeer shit, but obviously you know that :o) Thanks for the intertainment, I have improved my elglish writing skills and you have practiced using all the bad words you know, so I hope we both have gotten something out of it :o) Eurotrash, you seem to have no self critisims, but I guess that has no place in the Amercan way of living, as I smoothely connect to my first message, yehaa!!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Dear William
-- Mar 7, 2001 at 9:49AM
Jonas, you must be smoking reindeer shit now. I'm not at all upset -- sorry if you've received that impression. In short order: living in the Bronx didn't make me god -- just gave a view of race relations 99% of white people are never going to get, as they're never going to live in those circumstances, regardless of how well-intentioned they are. When you quoted Springsteen's "Thunder Road" you inferred that he was pulling out of "a town full of losers" in which I lived and was therefore a loser. Sorry, Jonas -- I can't afford to live in Rumson, NJ, a town full of winners -- the only people pulling out of there are chauffers. I think you should take less courses at university as they've obviously fucked up your mind beyond repair. And, no offense, but if writing for an internet magazine is such a lowly position in life ... how low is writing obtuse, arrogant letters-to-the-edito r to such a publication?
Stop getting under my American skin, Jonas, and go hang out in the ghettos of Sweden, all bad ass in your lederhosen, toting your flugelhorn like it was a 9-millimeter glock. Christ, do I hate Eurotrash with a passion.
Name: Jonas
Subject: Dear William
-- Mar 7, 2001 at 9:25AM
Most advanced words from Dear Williams vocabulry: bastard, asshole, fucking, idiot, jack ass, piss. And dear William, you're right, living in Bronx must make you god ;o)
Name: Jonas
Subject: Dear William
-- Mar 7, 2001 at 9:20AM
I think you,ve got it all wrong. Have I written that Bruce has lived in New York....I don't think so. You are drawing conclussions as if you are still in kinder garten :o) Perhaps you would improve your logical deduction if you took some corses at a university.....but hey, I guess your lack of brain is the main reason why your being an agressive writer at an Internet magazine...
Name: Jonas
Subject: Dear William
-- Mar 7, 2001 at 9:16AM
Wops, I think I upset you, sorry to tell you that you're wrong.....again :o)
Have a nice day!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Dear William
-- Mar 7, 2001 at 7:03AM
Jonas, you're a pathetic asshole for the numerous reasons I have sprinkled in among the righteous abuse you've deserved. That's right -- put on your fucking pop-star records and stick your head in the sand (or in this case the snow) rather than acquire real-life experience. You're the perfect fan. "Typical American"? Idiot, you have no idea, but that's all right, there are millions more "typical Europeans" like yourself with an arrogance problem. And, sorry, pal, but the people you were seeing in the audience at the Rikki Lake show were jack ass tourists -- of which you can count yourself one.
You have no idea what the "main issue" is here and no idea what you're talking about -- then again, you and Springsteen are in much the same boat. I'd give you bonus points for your bogus "town full of losers" Springsteen quote, but Springsteen's never lived in New York for any appreciable amount of time -- but what does this mean to an arrogant European jackass? Go back to your records and reindeers, Jonas -- apparently real life, especially in America, is something you're not ready for. And if you're recommending a book, I think I'll pass, no offense. Smug bastards like yourself tend to have the worst taste in literature.
Name: Jonas
Subject: Dear William
-- Mar 7, 2001 at 6:20AM
A last thought before I leave you to play around with bad words and personal insults, which obviously is the only thing you're good at ;o) The main issue is that a black man gets shot with 41 bullets by cops, who at least in Sweden is tha ones that is supposed to protect peole. If you can't see a problem in that event then I guess not only you but the hole of America has a problem. And by the way, we have black people in Europe and Sweden as well, we even have gettos. Now, how about that! So long William and keep up the good work by confirming all the thought I had about the typical american, I even thing I have seen poeple like you, both in the audience and on the stage at Ricki Lake....
Name: Jonas
Subject: Dear William
-- Mar 7, 2001 at 6:10AM
As I figured this site is about having a debate concerning Springsteens song "American Skin". Most of what you've been writing is not what can be concidered as seriously atempts to having a debate. Rather they recemble a lost and disillusioned man whos last thing in life is to use bad words to people he don't now anything about. Please have a coup of tea a read a book about tha native people in Sweden "Tha Samis" and their humble relation to their precious reindeers. Now Iīm gonna listen to Thunder Road and think about why peple like Springstten are pulling out of his town to leave loosers like you behind :o)
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Dear William
-- Mar 6, 2001 at 4:18PM
P.S., Jonas -- I've never been to Sweden. What that has to do with anything here, I have no idea. From what I've been told, it's a beautiful country filled with relatively sane, decent people, despite our unfortunate disagreement. I would love to see Sweden and am certain I would find it a very positive experience, even if I were to meet you and a reindeer in some back alley.
Now, Jonas, scroll back to your original post to see why goons like you piss me off with your take on America -- if you think I'd judge your country accordingly by visiting it once or twice as a tourist, guess again. I've never been THAT arrogant. Do you understand this about yourself? Or am I wasting my time even asking?
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Dear William
-- Mar 6, 2001 at 3:58PM
Jonas, I am calm -- take my word for it. Just because I rightfully call you an asshole doesn't mean I'm out of control. Again, allow me to point out, should you be able to see beyond your smug European point of view, that you were the one who came here and were insulting -- you asked for it. And it's good to see your a typical European toursit -- come here three times and you're a fucking expert on race relations. Maybe I bumped into you while you were wandering around midtown, ignoring everyone and everything with your camcorder as you walked around in a pack of other like-minded Swedish dweebs.
Springsteen may as well be a Swedish tourist, too, for all he knows of inner-city life and its complexities, especially when situations like this occur, and all rationality gets thrown out the window in favor of racial side-taking and uninformed liberal invective. Springsteen obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to issues like he raised in this song -- but don't worry -- he, you and millions of fans out there who would never set foot in the kind of neighborhood that shooting took place, i.e., not very far from where I spent 10 years of my life in the Bronx. But that's OK -- Americans are good at judging life form second-hand experience. Sounds like Europeans are all for this insightful new way of seeing the world, too. You're getting your point of view from a white man in a white town that you couldn't afford to live in, no matter what his intentions are. And I'd rather questiont his point of view than blindly accept it, as I have direct life experience to do so.
I'm much younger than Springsteen, but obviously older than you in that I'm less willing to fall for bullshit like this. And I still think you should go fuck a reindeer -- write a song about the experience. I'll believe that much more than a millionaire in a mansion telling me all about racism. Spare me, Mr. European Tourist, spare me.
Name: Jonas
Subject: Dear William
-- Mar 6, 2001 at 3:13PM
Dear William,
Please calm down before you cet a heart attack. A couple of corrections. I have been to USA thrre times, probably three times more than you have been to Sweden. And even if I hadn't, Mr Springstten, which song weīre still debating (apart from your childish rameks about reindeers and so on) have grown up, and lived hes whole lofe in the USA. Yoy seem to have a problem having a serious discussion and your arguments are exactly relevant which point in the direction that I'm right. By the way, how old are you? I surely hope that you arenīt an adult since that would really make me even more concerned about your intellect. Have a nice day, and keep up the good work :o)
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Re:Re:Reflection
-- Mar 1, 2001 at 7:59AM
Go fuck yourself, Jonas, you embarrasingly smug, deeply naive European twat. Sorry -- I'm not in the habit of kissing the asses of mediocraties like yourself. You come here, insult America in ways that suggest you've never been here and know nothing about it, then basically get your racial insights from a fucking pop song rather than personal experience. And you're lecturing me about intellectual depth? Go fuck a reindeer while you're at it.
Name: Jonas
Subject: Re:Re:Reflection
-- Mar 1, 2001 at 4:44AM
Dear William
I think you, by useing the language and the tone that you are using in your reply, shows how tremendously deep your intellect is.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Reflection
-- Feb 13, 2001 at 1:23PM
No offense, Jonas, but you don't know shit about America. And Sweden is the intellectual crossroads of the world? Get lost with that nonsense. Or better yet -- come move to the Bronx and get some real racial experience under your belt, rather than gathering it from a hokey, trite song that really says nothing. Has is occurred to you yet that ingrained European arrogance is part of an American racial problem that smug little bastards like yourself will never have to deal with in any real form?
Name: Jonas
Subject: Reflection
-- Feb 13, 2001 at 12:44PM
I must say that Iīm surprised to see that you donīt even understand the songs title. I live in Sweden which have culture far from the violent american culture caracterised by double moral and narscisism. However I guess thatīs what happen when you live isolated and think that America and american way of living is the standard to strive for, obviously at all costs......
Name: Senai-TW
Subject: reply
-- Feb 4, 2001 at 7:12PM
"I don't feel it as much, but it's still there when shit like this goes down."
Sounds like *hip-hop vernacular* to me. Seriously, about the "racist" thing, I agree the word gets tossed around far too often and used way too loosely. It's the kind of word you should be excessively careful before using and try not to call people that or jump to conclusions. I don't pay much attention to Sharpton and Jackson and their ilk. I'm sure they mean well but I prefer drawing my own conclusions.
I do not live in NYC so I didn't experience the racial tension before and after the trial. Whatever happened can't be changed, so let's just hope incidents don't occur in the future.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: response
-- Feb 4, 2001 at 4:08PM
Senai, all four of those men shot, so you figure roughly 10 shots per man. I'm not certain how many bullets are in a clip -- but it's more than 10. The first two guys should have known better and been charged with something. The second two guys, i.e., not in the vestibule? They heard one of their partners cry out "Gun!" then saw another one fall down after a few shots were fired. They simply assumed the suspect had a gun and had shot one of their partners -- not knowing that the gunfire was from on of the other officers, and the other partner simply fell down. The whole scenario was over in less than five seconds. Think about that.
Why was the case moved to Albany (sorry -- I put Buffalo but was incorrect)? Those cops never would have received a fair trial in New York City, much less the Bronx. What a lot of people don't know about the Bronx -- the felony conviction rate in the Bronx is the exact reverse of what it is for the rest of the country. This is to say that in most places in America, roughly 70% of felony cases are successfully prosecuted. In the Bronx, 70% of felony cases are unsuccessfully prosecuted, i.e., a "not guilty" verdict. There is a deep, profound distrust of the police in the Bronx -- whether that's valid or not is hard to say as the crime rate there has traditionally been very high and it stands to reason that everything a cop can do wrong will happen more often in the Bronx. The Bronx is an Addams Family world, and I base that more on personal experience than statistics. And at that time, Sharpton and his minions had whipped up such an anti-cop frenzy that they couldn't have had a fair trail anywhere in the NYC vicinity. Of course, that's debatable -- but I understand why they moved the trial (as opposed to not understanding why the Rodney King case was moved to Simi Valley back in 1990).
The prosecution wasn't terrible so much as the defense was brilliant. The key point was when the lead defense attorney held a wallet in one hand and a snubnose 38 in the other, exposing only the edge of the wallet through his hand, and the top barrel of the gun in the other hand -- and both did look exactly the same in a well-lit court room. Of course, this was legal brilliant trickery. Even if the cops had seen Diallo with a gun, they had only seen him pull it up from his pocket -- he did not turn to aim or in any way aim it at them. But in a court room situation, I guess it was enough to sway people to let everyone off rather than have them still question why they fired.
I think the attention drawn to this case is a good and bad thing. Good in the sense that it makes the department change in the hopes that something like this will never happen again. Bad in the sense that too much racial weight gets attached to these matters every time they happen. Don't know whether or not you live in NYC, but the day that verdict came down and the day after, you could cut the racial tension in town with a knife -- you could feel it. And I've felt it before. When I lived in the Bronx, i.e., with very few white people around, I dreaded every time something like this would happen, because I knew people would be staring daggers at me on the street or dropping comments like "white motherfucker" at me as I passed on the street. This happened all the time -- now that I no longer live there (Queens is much more racially mixed), I don't feel it as much, but it's still there when shit like this goes down. And this is what Springsteen and his fist-waving fans are never going to have to experience and why I always feel my "racial radar" go up when I see how the media handles this stuff.
There will be riots one day here over an issue like this, as it's destined to happen again in some shape or form. Cops are now allowed to carry semi-automatic weapons, which I support, but knowing they have such powerful weapons now, they should be 10 times as careful about using them, as the old standard issue .38s they had were like firing reloadable Revolutionary War muskets in terms of speed.
And, bottom line, you've seen it yourself with this article -- to not agree with one side, in this case the victimized side, is to be branded a racist -- like I said, a word which has sort of lost its meaning for me as I've seen it so over- and mis-used in the past 20 years. Hell, I'd rather acknowledge that something made me feel uptight racially than pretend everything in this society, or this instance, is clearly defined. It's rarely that simple.
Name: Senai-TW
Subject: response
-- Feb 4, 2001 at 1:09PM
Hey, I wasn't aware of the steps the police have taken to reform their departments... maybe even the NYPD. Anyways, the shot 43 times, so I figure they had to reload unless their guns can hold 10 bullets each. I think I read that or heard it on TV. Did all four of them shoot?
As for the court decision, I heard a guy on TV say that the prosecution was terrible and that the trial being moved to Buffalo hurt the cause. The federal court tend not to get involved in State decision. Besides, double jeopardy prevents them from being tried again, so the federal court was probably just making sure they were no gross mishandling of the situation, not actually retrying them.
I am not aware of the statistics during the Guiliani years, and am too lazy to look them up, but I was referring to the way he handled the Diallo situation. In other cases, the person may have had a gun, and the 43 shots cast a cloud of suspicion on the event. Cops are expected to be nervous in those situations and trained to shoot as needed right?
Whether those cops were guilty or not may never be known, so I do partly understand your point of view. For one, I think the attention the issue and event has received is a good thing.
P.S. Feel free to post another *sassy* reply yourself though there's little to be said anymore.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: reply
-- Feb 2, 2001 at 7:50PM
Senai, you need to get a few things straight.
1. I have all my Springsteen albums. More than a few bootlegs. And I still respect him as an artist -- one bad song isn't going to make me turn my back on him.
2. How would you describe your previous post? Lame hiphop vernacular is a shoe that fits -- unless you'd rather I just cut to the chase and call it bad, abusive name calling with no point. I'll stick with that original description, any day.
3. "The NYPD never does anything about these things"? That's complete bullshit. Where were you in 1990, i.e., when David Dinkins was mayor. In 1990, the rate of young black men being both shot and murdered by the police was literally five times higher than in 1999, when Diallo was shot. Where were you? Why didn't it bother you then? Why do more people not acknowledge this? The truth is that under the Giulliani administrations, the rate of police shootings plummeted, falling each year. Look it up if you don't believe me. Then please, please explain to me why it has been made into such a burning issue now. Why was this not a burning issue in 1990? Could you explain that to me?
4. Point out to me where I've defended these cops. I'm afraid all I'm asking for here is a plea for sanity and logic -- not defending the cops. You really need to fire a semi-aumotic weapon, preferably like I have, in a firing range. That clip empties in seconds. It's frightening how quickly you can unload a gun. I can only imagine how much faster it seems when you believe you're life may be threatened.
5. Please refer me to whatever article/news reel where you read/saw that the cops reloaded their guns and fired again. This did not happen. Four men panicked -- frankly, I think the first two in the vestibule should have faced manslaughter charges -- and responded poorly. In their case, responding poorly meant taking someone's life, unfortunately.
And plenty has been done since then, if you're paying attention at all to the news. For one, cops are receiving much more detailed training on how to handle situations where they have to draw their weapons, which is a rarity for most cops. Another is that cops will soon be required to approach suspects and explain to them why they are approaching them, rather than just forcing an antagonistic confrontation. There's a lot going on -- and some of it may be negative, as I'm certain more cops, seeing what happened in the Diallo situation, simply are refusing to engage in situations where they may have to draw their weapons, i.e., the public, especially in inner-city neighborhoods, will suffer from loosened police protection, as more cops do not want to face the media hype that is sure to follow any negative confrontation. And this is sad -- but true.
The cops' motives were "corrupt"? Please explain. I'm under the impression that you had four inexperienced cops who handled an extremely delicate matter very poorly. What are you implying? They saw some black guy on the street and decided to kill him? What makes you think that? And why didn't 12 jurors in Buffalo of mixed race agree with you on this? Why was this case judged to be a bad accident this past week and not a gross miscarriage of justice by a federal court? Two different courts came to the same conclusion? I suppose they're all a bunch of racists, too, even though there were black people involved in each decision?
And, finally, I'm still convinced everyone is racist to a certain extent. And I consider that both good and bad -- the only thing I consider truly evil is when people consider themselves above this ingrained American racism, whatever side they're on. I get spooked when I see that kind of behavior -- and I've seen a lot of it regarding this horrible situation.
Name: The Editors Respond
Subject: Re: Skipping Lines???
-- Feb 2, 2001 at 7:14PM
The Yak shack doesn't support HTML--too much potential for mischief. We support the low-tech hitting the "enter" key for skipping a line, and *asterisks* for emphasis.
Name: Senai-TW
Subject: Skipping Lines???
-- Feb 2, 2001 at 7:08PM
hmmm, I'm not sure how I'm suppose to italisize quotes or skip lines. I thought the standard for www boards was <I></I> for italics and <p> for skipping a line. Anyhow, I guess you could probably understand it what I wrote.
Name: Senai-TW
Subject: reply
-- Feb 2, 2001 at 7:03PM
<I>"Judge the tree by the fruit! Let's all buy our fruit from a reaonsable, intelligent, well-spoken young person like "Senai-TW." ; Word up, yo, g, and all the other shit you forgot to through in with your lame "hip hop" vernacular.<p>
You got the lyrics to American Skin, now take a walk, preferably somewhere where you can pick up some paragraph breaks in between the senseless, vaguely racist rantings. Then again, something tells me you're white as a sheet."</I&g t;<p>
Judge the tree by the fruit??? Whose rantings are "vaguely racist" exactly?? Perhaps you should re-read your posts again. You're suffering from denial. I guess to you someone has to be Black or "trying to be Black" of all things to condemn racism. Wow. That you consider my writing to be hip-hop vernacular is just icing on the cake. I figure you've already burned all your Springsteen cd's by now.<p>
As for the murders being pre-meditated, I didn't mean they planned it out ahead of time, but that they used their profession as a form of immunity for committing a crime. The NYPD never does anything about these things. Remember the racist cop in the OJ case from the LAPD. Did they chastise him? Hardly. <p>They don't bother and Guiliani always defends them so what is to serve as a deterrence to sick cops. They may be a minority but if nothing is ever done and they walk away freely with a two-week suspension or something, that can only serve to exacerbate the problem. Did the cops even apologize? How can you know whether the guy was taking out his wallet or not? Take their word? Even if he did, does that mean a cop can shoot ANYONE who reaches for a pocket? That seems to be the underlying implication here. Why would a single person take a gun out and take a chance shooting when outnumbered 4-to-1? Finally, how often do cops shoot a person 41 times, actually refill their guns to shoot a dead person? They had to consent to shooting 41 times coz a sane person would have forced the other 3 to stop.<p> Your thinly-veiled attempt at defending the cops, without a word of criticism, only renders matters worse and can unintentionally serve to spark the fire of similar cops if, indeed, the cops' motives were corrupt as I suspect them to be. Certainly there are racist people in our society, though not *everyone* as you claim, but they should not work for the police or government, especially the police. I'm not implying the cops were racist, but that if no one ever critisizes them and if people just attack guys like "the boss" for sharing their benign views, this practice, much like racial profiling, will rage on unfettered. Perhaps the cops' motives were as "noble" as they claim, but they did not seem too remorseful, nor did the NYPD. I cannot elucidate my case any further but to say that if you do not understand, so be it, to each his own. There are certain philosophies you just can't instill in people.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: reply
-- Oct 29, 2000 at 8:29PM
Pre-meditated? You mean murder? I don't believe that for a second. I do believe cops should be better trained to deal with situations like that, and not to panic, which is exactly what happened there.
I'm not defending those cops so much as I'm pointing out it was a bad situation made a few thousand times worse by notorious media manipulators like Sharpton, and the Boss, to me, was like a babe in the woods in terms of the complexities of the issue.
If anything, I'm asking readers to assume a lot more than headlines and not settle on the easy black-and-white answers both sides threw at each other in this issue. It's not as easy as those cops being found innocent, nor as all these clowns foolishly writing this whole incident off as white-on-black racism. If anything, I hope to point out it goes both ways in a situation like this, and I do recognize it as a severe tragedy, and something that should make the NYPD re-examine how they approach situations like this.
As for "racism" it there's one thing I learned after all that time in the Bronx it's that I've never met an American who wasn't racist in some sense, who didn't have some predisposition on racial issues based on the color of his or her skin and whatever social/political beliefs that implies. I think once you accept that about yourself and deal with it, you get past a lot of bullshit -- and hopefully don't settle on easy answers, especially ones proposed by the media. And that was about all I was tyring to do here.
Name: Senai-TW
Subject: reply
-- Oct 29, 2000 at 5:06PM
Yeah, I came here last time, I read your "letter" and got really pissed off. I just assumed you were racist, I don't know if that's the case but I condone no prejudice whatsoever and your letter really ticked me off. In hindsight, however, I realize I was rather harsh and even if you were racist, there isn't much I could do about it. <p>
I remembered your website was something about digest or whatever so I found it again in the search. Anyhow, one of my e-mail address is revolver_17@hotmail.com, so you can write if you want and I'll reply if I can. My first post was probably misplaced, but I still think the attack was premeditated and I don't see how anyone could defend those cops, let alone criticize the Boss for shedding light on the issue. <p>
Anyhow, one way or the other, I believe in God and that you get what you give. I do regret if that post offended any tolerant person, I was just speaking against a grave injustice, and perhaps went too far.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: FUCK YOU AND ALL U'R LITTLE STOOGES WHO THINK U'R TRAIN OF THOUGHT MAKES SENSE (AND WHO PROBABLY GIVE U HEAD )
-- Sep 12, 2000 at 10:20PM
Judge the tree by the fruit! Let's all buy our fruit from a reaonsable, intelligent, well-spoken young person like "Senai-TW." Word up, yo, g, and all the other shit you forgot to through in with your lame "hip hop" vernacular.
You got the lyrics to American Skin, now take a walk, preferably somewhere where you can pick up some paragraph breaks in between the senseless, vaguely racist rantings. Then again, something tells me you're white as a sheet.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: FUCK YOU AND ALL U'R LITTLE STOOGES WHO THINK U'R TRAIN OF THOUGHT MAKES SENSE (AND WHO PROBABLY GIVE U HEAD )
-- Sep 12, 2000 at 10:20PM
Judge the tree by the fruit! Let's all buy our fruit from a reaonsable, intelligent, well-spoken young person like "Senai-TW." Word up, yo, g, and all the other shit you forgot to through in with your lame "hip hop" vernacular.
You got the lyrics to American Skin, now take a walk, preferably somewhere where you can pick up some paragraph breaks in between the senseless, vaguely racist rantings. Then again, something tells me you're white as a sheet.
Name: Senai-TW
Subject: FUCK YOU AND ALL U'R LITTLE STOOGES WHO THINK U'R TRAIN OF THOUGHT MAKES SENSE (AND WHO PROBABLY GIVE U HEAD )
-- Sep 12, 2000 at 10:11PM
Look reshpshner shepard (or whatever u'r pseudonym is), I'm going to make this real short coz this site is so obviously for lamerz.. I mean look at the messages.. one guy actually spent 6 hours looking at a mirror. what a loser.. I bet he's aiming for u'r record.. u have no life dude.. I mean NO LIFE.. don't u have like friends and family and u know like ppl willing to overcome u'r discriminatory, superficial, unfounded comments... aaahh I'm getting off the subject here.. First of all, why would Amadou shoot an officer for no reason.. I mean have u ever seen a guy just take out a gun from his jacket and shoot an officer, let alone four of them.. give me a break.. u know the truth yet u obviously want to twist it.. the policemen should be in jail for life or at least serve time, I mean a lot of time.. Now u said that one and 41 shots don't make a difference.. R u really that stupid or r u just using it to back u'r argument.. I really mean it. 41 shots aren't brought up to say he wasn't dead after the first shot or whatever it u said.. it's just obvious that this was probably a hate crime. I mean u have to reload u'r gun a number of times to do that. The hatred is there.. And even if they had only shot him once, he was INNOCENT, he obviously wasn't taking a gun out.. How can u even prove he was reaching for his pocket. The entire story is muddled by a cover-up by the NYPD and Guiliani and all the other hyprocrites(hmmmmm, like u for example (duh!!!)) I hope one day u all get what u deserve. It all comes back to u u know. I, however, am not like u and am not implying that I u got what Amadou's mother went through, but if it does or something similar happens, then u might change u'r mind.. U have this arrogance like u know everything, when that's so obviously untrue... Like these shock jocks u seem to admire, the only reason u wrote this article is because u want the sell u'r stuff a uneducated male redneck audience (read over some of the messages, amazing how u all sound the same). By the way, don't compare this to ppl calling u names on the bus u pussy, that happens to pretty much everyone at some time or another. PPl don't go for trial for that. These cops shot an innocent who under the wildest of circumstances wasn't going to be carrying a gun, just like that, and shoot 4 officers, thinking he could actually be quicker that all four. give me a break. This isn't about being white or black. It could have happened to a white person or hispanic or asian. I would have been equally appalled at how heinous the crime was. No one deserves this. Getting shot 41 times, just for supposedly reaching for u'r pocket. There's a name for this. it's called abuse of power. The worst thing about this though is that u people don't even stop to think it over, and just like the NYPD and the NY mayor, sympathize with the officers. It always happens. Even if it was an accident, and they just reloaded their guns to shoot him again for no reason, he was innocent and cops aren't allowed to shoot unless the person they're trying to shoot shows a gun. Not something that might look like something that looks like somethin shaped like a gun, mind you, A GUN. so technically, they were guilty anyhow. You're views are a pure trash, u really are a scumbag u know. I just stumbled upon the site looking for the lyrics of "American skin", I can't believe ppl actually come here to post messages and read stuff a piece of shit like u would write. man, how I'd love to see get knocked out. Obviously, this isn't as short as I expected to be, but it's seems so hard to convince someone like u having of anything right, don't even get me started on u judging Mr. Springsteen, whose class and dignity u could never even claim to attain. I still can't believe people read stuff u write, such garbage, that's where it belongs anyway. To all u people that visit this site regularly on saturday night coz u have nothing to do and no girl would ever be seen with (geez I wonder why?), well, GET A FUCKING LIFE.. Cocksucking mothafuckas, the only thing u'r good for paying an idiot sheshsper reashpsher's salary.. I bet u feel guilty wishing u had a life and went to parties and chilled with friends and didn't have to settle for the pits of the pits, this fourth-rate lamer. I mean do u realize who u spend u'r time socializing. uugh. Oh, yeah and GET A LIFE.
Name: Senai-TW
Subject: FUCK YOU AND ALL U'R LITTLE STOOGES WHO THINK U'R TRAIN OF THOUGHT MAKES SENSE (AND WHO PROBABLY GIVE U HEAD )
-- Sep 12, 2000 at 10:11PM
Look reshpshner shepard (or whatever u'r name is), I'm going to make this real short coz this site is so obviously for lamerz.. I mean look at the messages.. one guy actually spent 6 hours looking at a mirror. what a loser.. I bet he's aiming for u'r record.. u have no life dude.. I mean NO LIFE.. don't u have like friends and family and u know like ppl willing to overcome u'r discriminatory, superficial, unfounded comments... aaahh I'm getting off the subject here.. First of all, why would Amadou shoot an officer for no reason.. I mean have u ever seen a guy just take out a gun from his jacket and shoot an officer, let alone four of them.. give me a break.. u know the truth yet u obviously want to twist it.. the policemen should be in jail for life or at least serve time, I mean a lot of time.. Now u said that one and 41 shots don't make a difference.. R u really that stupid or r u just using it to back u'r argument.. I really mean it. 41 shots aren't brought up to say he wasn't dead after the first shot or whatever it u said.. it's just obvious that this was probably a hate crime. I mean u have to reload u'r gun a number of times to do that. The hatred is there.. And even if they had only shot him once, he was INNOCENT, he obviously wasn't taking a gun out.. How can u even prove he was reaching for his pocket. The entire story is muddled by a cover-up by the NYPD and Guiliani and all the other hyprocrites(hmmmmm, like u for example (duh!!!)) I hope one day u all get what u deserve. It all comes back to u u know. I, however, am not like u and am not implying that I u got what Amadou's mother went through, but if it does or something similar happens, then u might change u'r mind.. U have this arrogance like u know everything, when that's so obviously untrue... Like these shock jocks u seem to admire, the only reason u wrote this article is because u want the sell u'r stuff a uneducated male redneck audience (read over some of the messages, amazing how u all sound the same). By the way, don't compare this to ppl calling u names on the bus u pussy, that happens to pretty much everyone at some time or another. PPl don't go for trial for that. These cops shot an innocent who under the wildest of circumstances wasn't going to be carrying a gun, just like that, and shoot 4 officers, thinking he could actually be quicker that all four. give me a break. This isn't about being white or black. It could have happened to a white person or hispanic or asian. I would have been equally appalled at how heinous the crime was. No one deserves this. Getting shot 41 times, just for supposedly reaching for u'r pocket. There's a name for this. it's called abuse of power. The worst thing about this though is that u people don't even stop to think it over, and just like the NYPD and the NY mayor, sympathize with the officers. It always happens. Even if it was an accident, and they just reloaded their guns to shoot him again for no reason, he was innocent and cops aren't allowed to shoot unless the person they're trying to shoot shows a gun. Not something that might look like something that looks like somethin shaped like a gun, mind you, A GUN. so technically, they were guilty anyhow. You're views are a pure trash, u really are a scumbag u know. I just stumbled upon the site looking for the lyrics of "American skin", I can't believe ppl actually come here to post messages and read stuff a piece of shit like u would write. man, how I'd love to see get knocked out. Obviously, this isn't as short as I expected to be, but it's seems so hard to convince someone like u having of anything right, don't even get me started on u judging Mr. Springsteen, whose class and dignity u could never even claim to attain. I still can't believe people read stuff u write, such garbage, that's where it belongs anyway. To all u people that visit this site regularly on saturday night coz u have nothing to do and no girl would ever be seen with (geez I wonder why?), well, GET A FUCKING LIFE.. Cocksucking mothafuckas, the only thing u'r good for paying an idiot sheshsper reashpsher's salary.. I bet u feel guilty wishing u had a life and went to parties and chilled with friends and didn't have to settle for the pits of the pits, this fourth-rate lamer. I mean do u realize who u spend u'r time socializing. uugh. Oh, yeah and GET A LIFE.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: The mirror test
-- Sep 11, 2000 at 6:05PM
Say, Ralph, mate:
I am very famous and popular here in America.
I have shame and social conscience -- what your insinuation that I don't has to do with an honest expression of doubt and anger at a complex situation, and the reaction of a superstar, I have no idea.
Shoot the messenger? All he delivered was warmed over headlines -- hardly anything relevant that already hadn't been reported here ad infinitum. I've done the Boss one better and spent a decade living in the place he's written so unknowledgeably about. Go figure.
And I tried your mirror test! I last six hours, forty-eight minutes and six seconds. And then I had to take a piss. But in all that time, I REALLY looked myself in the eye, checked out what I really have inside, and it looked like it was all in perfect working order. Sorry!
Maybe you should throw another shrimp on the barbie, mate, and leave the guilt-tripping to pop singers.
Name: hey!
Subject: Re: The mirror test
-- Sep 7, 2000 at 7:32PM
uhhhhhh....... i dont know what you are talking about when you wrote the mirror test. but you actually say that?! i am from england but currently moved to amreica and i am loving it! i wish people would say "only in england" but now i understnad why they say "only in america" for example.... just kidding. dont want to bore an aussie or whatever you call yourselves! have a great day and feel free to respond!
Name: Ralph
Subject: The mirror test
-- Sep 7, 2000 at 2:43PM
I found your site by accident so I am not sure of who you are or how famous or popular your writing is, Being from Australia your name is new to me so I have no previous knowledge , bias or opinion towards your work.
Having read your article, which was obviously written only to create controvery, it seems that you really should perform the mirri test.
Have you no shame or social concsience? The song was written regarding a wrong doing. So you want to shoot the messanger? As we say here - Only in america.
Maybe you should take a long hard look at yourself in front of a mirror every so often and see how long you can stand there and look yourself in the eye, check out what you really have inside.
VEry poor example of objective journalism
Name: JAC
Subject: C'mon Admit It...
-- Jun 26, 2000 at 2:02PM
You two love each other... ADMIT IT!
:-)
Name: miriam
Subject: Re: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Jun 24, 2000 at 1:52PM
This is your lamest criticism yet. What can I say, I was on line at 3:00am because I was out earlier in the evening. What can I say, I find it difficult to fall asleep after wild partying and sex.
And Bill "9:09AM on the Saturday morning? whats the matter, mommy tells you to be in bed by 10PM?
P.S. thanks for mentioning my future mag in your publication. Can never have too much free publicity :)
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Jun 24, 2000 at 9:09AM
"The pen is Bruce's nine millimeter automatic"?
I'll leave it at that for the anonymous post -- that line says it all for me. You've just equated Bruce with those four cops and insinuated that what they did to Diallo is what he's doing to his audience's perceptions. Perfect. And sorry, anonymous person, but American Skin says nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. Far less than what I've lived and experienced on my own, before and after the tragedy. If anything, I refuse the polices' and Springsteen's take on it. They're both tainted and misleading.
Miriam, 3:19 a.m. on a Saturday morning? What goes on here? Just can't get enough, can you? Now, I'm a late night urge for you? A Friday night, no less? Tsk, tsk.
And I have no problem with legitimate criticism -- forgive me for recognizing the difference between that and self promotion. How's work going on HearMeRoarMagazine.com?
Name: mg
Subject: Re: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Jun 24, 2000 at 3:19AM
Thank you. I guess I am not the only one who appreciates the deapth and symbolism of this song. I wonder if Bill will attack your comments in the same manner he attacked mine. But be careful, he doesnt take criticism lightly. Next thing you know, he'll be calling you names and telling you to take your "safer-then-milk" writing and shove it.
Name: An LS.n Reader
Subject: Getting Under My American Skin
-- Jun 24, 2000 at 2:23AM
Your usenet print presents whole verses as (Repeat Lena verse) and (Chorus) etc. Simply reading the Cliff Notes to American Skin doesn't transmit the tender emotion or angst of the performance. Bill, the song is NOT about Amadou Diallo. It is about the AFTERMATH of the tragedy. You seem to have been sucked in by the very bad hype-machine of the NYPD who continues to seek, in vain, sympathy from the tragedy. The PBA and Blue Collar Press has no clue what the issue is NOW. Bruce, once again, is way out in front voicing the true concerns of thoughtful citizens. What happens NOW, are we going to let this happen again and again. Bruce implores all listening not to let this happen in the America he so sincerely loves.
Duh Bill, you don't know what American Skin is? It's you and me bro. It's blacks, hispanics, lawyers, and starving writers. It's all of us Bill. Bruce and the band breathe life into words and they become a compelling image of a mother talking to her beloved small child AFTER the Diallo incident, NOT about it. Your mother Bill, my wife, not a BLACK mother, ANY mother fearing for the life of her baby. The poetry of the song trancends a single incident, it trancends even that loving image. An American mother, where a cop has been taught he has to shoot to kill if he FEELS threatened, pleads with God, please don't let my become frightened by uniformed figures shouting at him, shouting things he may not understand. Please God don't let his freedom in America let him do the things that a CHILD, who doesn't fathom the violence that Police are trained to unleash, does naturally. Please don't let the confusion of a CHILD, who doesn't understand that it's not ok to put his hands in his pockets, have his body torn to pieces by 41 exploding 9mm shots. Don't let the omnipotence of youth and the freedom of innocence kill my child. Don't let America become a place where Authority has given itself the OK to mutilate with impunity those who simply didn't understand. Don't let anyone with American Skin think this could only happen in the South Bronx. Don't let any part of America - the Bronx, Rumson, Waco, Altoona, any part of America submit to martial law.
I don't recall in either the words or spirit of the American Bill of Rights that says to keep your hands in sight at all times in the presence of Police, or they have the right to not simply arrest you, but to kill you as fast as they can. I am amazed that someone like yourself who professes independence and freedom of thought, is so willing to throw yourself up against the wall and spread them, or be shot. Get past the simpy martyrdom of the PBA and New York Post, Bill, and listen to the real message of the song and it's companion in the performance Code of Silence. If you don't think it takes guts to risk everthing you have worked for since you were 16 years old by using a fragile thing like fame for the cause of civil rights, perhaps it's because you really don't have anything to lose. I'm aghast at the cowering displayed in post's I've seen on digests. Americans suggesting what you should do to keep from being shot to death if you are stopped on the Garden State Parkway for a traffic violation.
I'm not ashamed to quote Dylan. I think it's ok to have heroes. There REALLY ARE some great men in the world. Some Dylan verse, 5 sentences a little rearranged, reflect the thoughts I have tried perhaps in vain to convey in three paragraphs :
The highway is for gamblers, better use your sense.
Take what you have gathered from coincidence.
The empty-handed painter from your streets
Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets.
Yonder stands your orphan with his gun
Crying like a fire in the sun
Look out the saints are coming through
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.
The pen is Bruce's nine millimeter automatic. He has used it boldly and with noble purpose. He waited till he was SURE he saw a real danger. No apologies necessary. "In a soldiers stance I aimed my hand" - he has hit the mark - Point Blank.
Name: William S. Repsher
Subject: American Skin
-- Jun 23, 2000 at 1:18PM
This one post will be in response to Mssrs. Dubrow, Peach and Payton.
Al and Jim, I left the Digest because it was starting to annoy the hell out of me -- so much that my last days there were dedicated to tearing it down. If just felt/feels stale to me, has/had for a long time now. Which isn't to say it was a great ride while it lasted -- and I do read along, but have no urge to participate.
Herr Dubrow, I just don't like that song for reasons stated. Bruce takes not one chance on it -- he plays it straight down the middle like a politician running for office would. Which is fine, but what's he running for? When you get right down to it, Bruce, while a great artist and performer, has been playing it safe for years. His incredible shows are incredible because he leaves nothing to chance -- which says much about his sense of professionalism -- and how, as far as I'm concerned, he's wandered away from the "anything can happen" spirit of rock.
And why do people have such a hard time with geography and how it influences their world view. After well over a decade in 718 neighborhoods, a vast majority of them in an extremely non-white neighborhood, I can tell you that the cumulative experience I've had there has had a profound, unchangeable influence on how I see the world in general, and racial relations in particular. I'm a lot more hopeful than many people in certain respects, and a lot less tolerant in others. Where you live deeply influences who you are and how you see things. Bruce is no different, especially when he writes songs from newspaper headlines and not where he lives.
Rumson? Hat's off to him -- he's living the American Dream of a working-class kid who made it big and is enjoying the rewards. I'll still go on listening to his music -- he's had a profound influence on me as well. But if does something I find questionable, I'll ask the question. The only line I tend to stick to from Bob Dylan, a tired old billy goat whom Bruce idolizes is the one that goes "don't follow leaders."
Or was it "watch the parking meters"?
Name: Dennis Dubrow
Subject: American Skin
-- Jun 23, 2000 at 12:54PM
Why isn't American Skin a good song? Does it lack a melody or a chorus that sticks in your head? Are the lyrics either so non-sensical or so deep that neither end of the listening audience "gets it"? No, the reality is that Bruce has somehow, in a voice that's coming from a 50+ year old father and husband, not a hormone raging teen of angst and vicious desire, and somehow re-connected with the muse that got him to the top of the world of R&R. Similar to Lou Reed, who's new album and shows are thought provoking mature looks at middle age, not drug induced paeans to mindless whoring intoxication. I know a whole lot of old Lou fans that hate what he's doing now. I know a whole lot of Bruce zealots, who noticed a month ago, that the band was hitting a whole new groove, that they were tighter, that all of a sudden mid-set, Bruce would change the song and the audience wouldn't know it, the E-Streeters would just roar into the Boss's new choice, the way they did 10+ years ago.
Hey listen, like it, dislike it, to each his own. What American Skin signifies, amongst other things, is that R&R is not just for teens and 20 somethings to perform and produce. That you can be 50 and still write a great song, and write a great song that moves people on topics relevant to today is a tremendous accomplishment by one of the extraordinary artists of our time.
If you dig a little deeper into the lyrics of American Skin, play with the words, you'll see how easily Bruce could have pointed his finger at ethnicity and police brutality. He didn't, I believe, for a very good reason, being the father of 3 children, having to give those children advice, knowing that all the money and fame won't protect his children, he wrote a song from the perspective of who he is and what he is and what's going on around him and what he would tell his kids.
And Rep, I respect you and you're writing and you're opinions, I am shocked that you lowered yourself to the absolute bullshit that because Bruce lives in Rumson, he owns a house there, doesn't spend alot of time there, has anything to do with the artist, especially this song. I for one, hate envy, were you looking around at your digs at the time you wrote your piece on American Skin, and maybe wishing and hoping Malcom Forbes would catch the article and upgrade your station in life so that you could afford a Rumson home.
Bruce Springsteen regularly gets on his bike, or on PUBLIC transportation, hat pulled over his eyes and practices much of what he preaches. There is no pretension in the man, he is indeed, after all the fame, glory and money, still one of us. On any given night when he isn't on tour, you can still see Bruce, alone, hanging in a Jersey bar, having a beer and talking baseball with whoever is there.
Name: Jim Peyton
Subject: Rep this joint
-- Jun 23, 2000 at 10:01AM
Ahh Guillermo....your wit and charm are still in evidence.
I agree with your take on American Skin. Too easy to write about injustices rather than work on eliminating the causes of the injustice.
Billy..don't be a hero...come back to the Digest mon...
--Jim
Name: Al Peach
Subject: THe Boss
-- Jun 23, 2000 at 8:58AM
Nice to hear you're alive and cynical, Bill! We need you on the Digest. Hard being one of the only ones who isn't a sheep. Anyway, this is all well and fine, but I wouldn't have wasted my time talking about the Boss. There's so much more music out there than to hear re-hashes of his old songs!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: apparently, my need for therapy
-- Jun 20, 2000 at 9:41PM
Good luck in your future endeavors. Please, adminster to them post haste and stop wasting your precious time and talent here. The world is hungering for your voice, Miriam.
Name: Miriam Gotlib
Subject: Re: apparently, my need for therapy
-- Jun 20, 2000 at 8:53PM
Listen asshole, fuck you and your prejudice toward a mag which hasnt even been published yet. You dont know me, you know nothing about me or about my work. If it makes you feel like a better and bigger man to keep insulting me - have your fun.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: apparently, my need for therapy
-- Jun 20, 2000 at 7:53PM
Miranda Gotterdammung, I can't wait for HearMeRoarmagazine.com. Although, I think HearMeWhineMagazine.com would be more appropriate.
And nothing personal in my attack. I recognize you as the sort of bottom-feeder who gets a little too nutty about his/her chosen publication. Like De Niro in King of Comedy.
And I think I'll refrain from posting any commentary to HearMeBoreMagazine.com -- let's just say I can smell the quality of your writing a mile away, like a rainstorm in summer, and that's putting it in the context of a nice smell.
Name: Miriam
Subject: apparently, my need for therapy
-- Jun 20, 2000 at 3:35PM
Maximus Gotmilk? How very clever of you... respond to criticism by namecalling. Whats next "Mommy, the mean girl didnt like my story about Bruce?". The lawyer bits are also nothing but cheap shots.
As I said, I dont know anything about you so I cant pay you back with the same cheap remarks (hey, for all I know you are toothless redneck or, worse yet, an NYPD officer, who hides behind some made up
Repsher Shmepsher name)
I am not at all wounded. In fact it appears that you are the one with a bruised ego, why else would you resort to personal attacks rather then content-based criticism.
You are right, I enjoy, for the most part, reading this magazine. On occasion I disagree with editors' comments or those of other readers. If YOU cant handle the response you get, perhaps YOU shouldnt be writing for an on-line publication.
I wasnt aware of anyone inviting me to write for LSn since it is an all-male publication, "for guys like you". But dont dispair, look for my soon-to-be-launched HearMeRoarMagazine.com. You are welcome to post your opinion anytime you want and guess what? I promise to be mature enough not to resort to namecalling or other types of passive-aggressive behavior.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: The Boss & 41 Shots
-- Jun 20, 2000 at 8:15AM
Matilda, when I say "step up to the plate," I mean start writing more than frumpy letters-to-the-editor. Get off it -- as with Springsteen writing this song, it's too easy. I'm happy to see you have no problem using your name, but, please, lay off the wounded bird routine. A lawyer pullint that stunt? That's like a python complaining about a muscle pull after suffocating a doberman.
Now, Maximus Gotmilk, all I'm implying is that if you enjoy reading this webzine as much as you obviously do, or at least get off on loving to hate it as much as you do, I'm encouraging you to step out of the audience and try it yourself. Write an article. See what happens. Of course, I'd also recommend a few weeks of intensive therapy, but I'm assuming that would be standard issue for any lawyer.
And I'm not sorry for anything -- I haven't done anything wrong, nor have you.
Name: Miriam Gotlib, the Pompouse Self-Serving bitch
Subject: Re: The Boss & 41 Shots
-- Jun 20, 2000 at 12:33AM
Hmm, no apology, no "I am sorry I was wrong about your name", "I was mistaken when I thought you were hiding behind some silly made up acronym"? Not even an, "oops, my bad..." How typical.
Maybe I am a bit pompous, but you know what I DONT GIVE A SHIT. I have been called worse. And self-serving? What interest am I serving by wasting my breath on this pointless conversation?Oh yeah, you dont have to worry about your buddies, we are not "fraternizing", we are just acquainted (feel better now?) I was just trying to show you that your accusations of my failure "to step up to the plate" are without merit.
By the way, I am very impressed how you were able to use the phrases "soapbox to ride on" and "Battle Hymn of the Republic" in the same sentence. Congrats, you seem to be learning about symbolism.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: The Boss & 41 Shots
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 11:44PM
You know Jordan and Kerry. Woof. Those boys are younger than I am and willing to take more shit.
Any constructive criticism. Aside from encouraging you to dump your pompous, self-serving, safe-as-milk writing style, no, you're just perfect as you are.
Jordan and Kerry! We need to talk about whom you fraternize with! I'm worried about you two.
Name: MGOTLIB
Subject: Re: The Boss & 41 Shots
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 11:15PM
Hey doofus, my name is Miriam Gotlib -- hence, the goofy MGotlib -- M being the initial of Miriam, and Gotlib being my last name (forgive Immigration and Naturalization for not knowing how to spell, it should properly be spelled Gottlieb).
I never hid behind my name. In fact, some of the editors of this wonderful publication (e.g. Kerry and Jordan) have met me in person and know exactly who I am. I also believe that I am one of very few people using my real name while responding to your articles instead of nicknames, like JoeAverageCitizen or LSnReader. Perhaps next time I'll sign my name -- Statute of Liberty or IWantItBad6969. In case anyone else is interested in who I am --check out my profile or contact me via email at MGotlib1@aol.com, look for me in Hofstra Law Alumni Directory or American Bar Association directory. I have nothing to hide.
Now that we got that out of the way, do you have any contstructive criticism other then
your arbitrary and capricious dislike for my name?
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: The Boss & 41 Shots
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 6:57PM
Christ in a sidecar -- and I thought Springsteen was pulling my chain.
I want you to thank me, Mgotlib, or whatever your name is, for giving you a soapbox on which to put forth while "Battle Hymn of the Republic" played on the loudspeaker and a wind machine blew across your saintly form.
I wouldn't know where to begin -- so I'll just say this. If you're going to state anything with a sense of conviction, use your real name. I have a hard time responding to goofy screen name -- I won't do it. But I've seen your tag many times in the Yaks. Has it occurred to you that maybe you should step up to the plate and do more than the semi-regulat haughty letter to the editor.
Phew. Where's John Cougar Mellencamp when you need him?
Name: mgotlib
Subject: The Boss & 41 Shots
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 3:23PM
I dont know what you do for a living when you are not writing for LSn and dont know how, if at all, enlightened you are when it comes to literature or poetry. But I think your criticism of this song "misfires" in several aspects. First, metaphors, allegories and other symbolisms are often used in poetry and literature to relate a message. Had the song referred to a single shot - would you have been able to identify it as a song about, among other things, Amadou Diallo? "41" shots have come to symbolize that particular incident, just as "the missing glove" is associated with O.J. Simpson. Second, you are right, there are plenty of black people dying in Rwanda -- but this song is not about the genocides taking place in Rwanda, Somalia or other countries. Its about what is going on here, in the U.S. of A. Criticising this song for singling out the injustice toward blacks in the U.S. is like criticizing "Shindler's List" for singling out Holocaust over all other instances of genocide that took place in history. Third, I have no clue why the Boss chose to refer to skin as "American skin", but I do know that I like his choice of words precisely because the message that I get out of it, -- that all members of society here, regardless of their race, have American skin and should be afforded same respect and protection of the American Constitution. Once again -- "American skin" is a symbolism meant to relate a message, one which you may have been unable to grasp. Finally, you are right, in some of our NY neighborhoods kids are much more likely to be shot by gang members then cops -- but from my own observations I know that kids living in Bed-Sty or Brownsville do not need to be tought to avoid messing with the wrong crowd -- they do unfortunately have to be tought to avoid, in any way even trivial, contact with law enforcement officers, who ironically enough are supposedly present in their neighborhoods for their safety and protection.
Personally, I give the Boss a lot of credit for speaking out on this issue because, lets face it, the people who listen to him are mostly white whose attitude toward the issue is often "Who fucking cares"?. Unlike, Al Sharpton (here, once again your criticism misfires), the Boss is not trying to capitalize on this tragedy and to win political support. He is, however, using his voice and his stage to shed light to the issue of racism in America and, by the way, to send an important message to the Diallo family that not all whites agree with the Diallo verdict.
You are right about one thing, Rocker is a stupid ignorant jock, and ufortunately, must be able to exercise his 1st Amendment right. But if I ever see him on that No. 7 train, he better run because my immigrant foot is just itching to kick him in his racist ass.
Name: JAC
Subject: The Boss
-- Jun 19, 2000 at 1:42PM
1st amendment. He can sing anything he wants. Rocker SHOULD be able to SAY anything he wants... but alas, our first amendment rights are a sham! Falling prey to the POLITCAL CORRECTNESS of modern America.
What a joke.
As I like to remind people, as an average American, my opinion of this and most other "newsworthy" items is: WHO FUCKING CARES?
Have a nice day,
JAC
|
